Training 8 - Sales - Overlap Design

8. Sales

Empowering people to make a wise decision and commit.

Let’s pause for a moment and talk about sales!

I honestly, at first, did not plan to include a sales-related module in this training. There are so many different ways of approaching it and it’s such a huge topic. But it’s something that, like most things, isn’t as complicated as it is often portrayed and, ironically, it’s actually one of the areas I should feel most qualified to teach.

I’ve sold millions of dollars-worth of programs, services, and more. I’ve sold high-ticket coaching programs and Done-For-You services all the way up to $90,000 in value through phone calls, and I’ve sold small programs and mid-ticket programs, all the way up to $45,000 through Messenger & Email alone. Everybody wants to make it more complicated than it actually is. I want to put a stop to that and focus on the few things that actually matter, rather than NLP hacks and things like tonality and mantras you repeat to yourself. There’s a lot to cover, so let’s get started.

Fundamentally, what we’re trying to accomplish is to empower somebody to make a bold decision that leads them out of their comfort zone and in the direction of growth and change, punctuating that decision with an exchange of money for value and guidance to signify their commitment to doing the work necessary to get the result instead of accepting their lot in life without a fight.

There are 3 main things that we are going to work through.

  1. Messenger-to-Call Framework
  2. Phone Sales
  3. Follow-Up

The Messenger-to-Call Framework

This should be pretty obvious, but this is the framework by which we are going to get people from either LinkedIn chat or Facebook Messenger to a 15 minute call with us.

This thinking is at work in the system for the LinkedIn OOO & Daily SOP. Your VA was given some pretty good materials in the Daily SOP for how to do this kind of thing. But I still want you to know what this looks like.

All successful communication comes very close to how we date or make new friends. It’s all just social interactions. A great way for you to improve your messenger game, is by learning how people interact with each other, especially when creating intimacy & social bonds.

This is why we grow to like them and research them as people before we ever reach out. We actually want to demonstrate that we care. People need to know that you care before they’ll ever care what you know.

But the fundamental idea is this – once you are in a conversation with someone, you ask relevant questions until you get responses.

You nurture the conversation until it reaches a point where it makes sense to see if they want to jump on a call or take the next step.

If people drop off and stop responding, you carefully and maybe even playfully bring them back into conversation after a couple days’ time.

Roughly it looks like this:

  1. Research Your Conversation Partners
    1. At least ONE specific personal point that we can relate to or be curious about
    2. At least ONE specific business/professional point
    3. A potential hot button in correlation with the problem you solve
  2. Open the Conversation with new friends
    1. Use one specific personal point that you researched to craft an opening message that you can only use for the specific prospect
    2. Don’t overthink it & Follow up
  3. Have Social Rapport
    1. Keep the conversation about the one specific personal point going up until it fades out naturally
    2. Open up yourself where it’s relevant to build affinity bridges
    3. Follow up
  4. Seamless Transition
    1. For example, if you need the conversation to transition towards business (for a business offer)
      1. Use one specific business point that you researched to craft an opening message that you can only use for the specific prospect
      2. Be curious about their positioning, what they stand for or preach
      3. Be curious about their business; Target market, the products they’re selling, their field of expertise, or the processes they use to solve problems.
      4. If you don’t know any of these, tell them where you’ve found them and make an invitation to pray for them / support them somehow!
    2. If you need to move the conversation towards their health (for a health offer)
      1. Use one specific personal point that you researched to craft an opening message that you can only use for this specific prospect.
      2. Be curious about their health goals, what “optimal health” means to them.
      3. Be curious about the 2nd-and-3rd order consequences – what does optimal health unlock for them? What do they stand to gain by getting more healthy?
      4. If you don’t know any of these, tell them where you’ve found them and make an invitation to pray for them / support them somehow!
    3. Follow up!
  5. Convert the conversation
    1. Gain the information you need, to make sure your solution is relevant (Goal or what they’re working on)
    2. Offer a 15 minute call to see if there’s a fit.
    3. Hold your ground, don’t give up easily & Follow up

Phone Sales

So, they have agreed to a 15 minute call. Here it comes, a little 15 minute slot on your calendar, right after lunch. You pour yourself another coffee, put on your headphones, fire up Zoom, and… what do you say? It’s a simple 15-minute call. What do you say?

Here I’ve got — you guessed it — another Notion template that I created for you. It’s called the Call Log! Let’s open it up and take a look. I recommend that you come up here and click “Duplicate” – I don’t want you to fill this out as a Workbook, I want you to keep this as a resource you make use of on a daily basis.

Every time you start interacting with a new person, come in here and create a new record. You’ll keep the same record if you have any follow-up information about this person, etc. – I’ve included Support and Coaching Call templates in here as well, but they’re not quite as in-depth. You make a new one of those every time you want to make Support or Coaching info.

You create a record for a conversation with good ol’ John Doe. The Sales Call tab creates the script framework and notes that I’m about to walk you through, and creates different sections for you to work with.

Now, we get to take a closer look at this template.

The 15 Minute Call

Remember that we always start with a 15-Minute Call. We are trying to get in, get a bit of information, and either extend an invitation to speak more, extend an invitation for them to learn more about your offer, or thank them for their time and send them on their way if they’re not a good, qualified fit. It’s pretty straightforward.

The 45 Minute Call

The 45 Minute Call is something that you’ll offer in the beginning as you’re getting your business up and running. This is what’s called a 2-call close process. You get the discovery call, and then you’re moving them over to the 45 minute call that’s a lot more in-depth.

The framework we’re using here is a modified version of what’s called the Objection Box Framework, which was popularized by Bill Walsh. Bill’s a genius, sailor-mouthed no-nonsense Irishman, but goodness gracious can the man train ethical sales.

If I had to sum up the Objection Box framework in one phrase, it would be “Tough Love”. You’re not trying to make friends. You’re trying to challenge people to get out of their own way, to take their own goals seriously enough to take massive action to achieve them. That means that we are chucking an awful lot of “decorum” and “propriety” out the window in favor of a wake-up-call-to-arms sort of an approach, to get people out of their comfort zone.

We don’t want to be the kind of person who fritters away our time with pleasantries, BS, and nonsense. We want to love people enough, by default, to give it to them straight, to the point, with no false sense of security. If they’re stuck, then baby they’re stuck and they need to know it. If they’ve got something stuck in their teeth, if their plan is doomed to fail for reasons obvious to apparently everybody but them, if their fly is down and they’re walking around like everything’s normal — if they are walking on the train tracks with a train coming up behind them, and they don’t hear the horn or see it coming because they’re strolling along with their headphones in like nothing’s wrong, the loving thing to do is rip the headphones out, yell at them to get off the tracks, and maybe push them out of the way. True love often looks like what needs to be said and done that nobody wants to.

To be honest, I struggle with this. I like to be likable and I like to be liked. A sales call is not the place for that. Neither, of course, is a coaching call, or a support call. That’s the secret. People are looking to you for leadership, guidance, direction, and a challenge to do and become more. Coaching and sales are the same in this way – you are the adult with the guidance and the plan – you are responsible for boldly supplying the next steps for this person to take if they want to get to the next level.

It may even help your evangelism – being honest and straightforward with people is a necessary prerequisite to sharing good news with them. The good news is always preceded by bad news, isn’t it?

  • Don’t give them a ton of in-depth training on this call. That’s not the purpose of the call. You’re trying to see if you can help, and you’ve got a Mid-Ticket thing ready to go to make helping as painless as possible.
    • Your prospect will mistake education for action. They will allow you to educate them only to go convert somewhere else. Your prospect will beat around the bush, dodge direct questions, and try to pretend that everything is just fine in their world, even though they booked a call with you because they know, deep down, they need help.
Note to reader: Check the workbook for an actual deep-dive into the “Call Log” Notion Template as well as the Sales Call Map.

3 Mistakes that Prevent Closes

  1. Agreeing with Everything the prospect says on the call.
    • Don’t say “yeah that makes total sense” if somebody’s stance doesn’t actually make sense.
    • Do not agree & laugh along with the prospect, if they’ve just expressed a belief that’s disempowering.
    • When you’re uncovering the pain, you don’t want to just agree with them. No affirmation. No encouragement. They need to be real with themselves that the situation sucks.
  2. Not uncovering the hidden pain.
    • Uncovering the main “challenge” isn’t the same thing as the pain.
    • The hidden pain is, in theory, going to look like the Moment of Highest Tension – it’s a tangible experience of what sucks about this situation, that’s driving them to resolve the challenge and problem.
    • Pain resolution is way more important than pleasure / aspiration.
  3. Not getting clear on “why now?”
    1. Hold up the mirror to your prospect and remind them why they said that now was the right time.
    2. “You said you wanted to get your time back so that you could spend more time with your kids, and that you need to be there now, while they’re still young. AND you said you’re like a 9 out of 10 out of your confidence in the process. So – why are you thinking of waiting around?”


💡 First things’ first. Don’t use follow-up as a “pressure release” valve on the 45-minute call. If somebody is stuck between their fear of paying money to get help and their long-term prospects if nothing changes, don’t break that tension with a “hey, if you want to talk about this more some other day, why don’t we book a call so you can go think about it?” They don’t need to think about it. They need to make a yes or a no decision and commit to either staying comfortably stuck or being a little uncomfortable for awhile so they can break free.

With that caveat, if they don’t buy on the call – what do we do.

  • Immediately follow up every call with a “thanks + recap” message✉️ Hey [NAME],

    Thanks again for jumping on the call with me. I genuinely enjoyed getting to know you a bit better.

    I was really inspired by the goals you shared with me! ___ is totally attainable with the right help and system.

    I’m eager to see how we can help you clear ___ to make that a reality for you.

    I’ll be checking in on you, but please reach out if you’ve got any questions.

    The last thing I want is for you to stay stuck in your comfort zone and be in the same spot a year from now.

    In your corner,

    • Tim
  • Get confirmation on follow-up steps while you’re still on the call. Agree on “let’s book another call for a week from now”, or “if we’re just waiting for a client check to come in, let me circle back around to check on you in 2 weeks.” Put it on your calendar. Follow-through.
  • If they start to ghost you, send a playful GIF. Here are 3 of my favorites:

GIPHY search “Millhouse Frisbee”

GIPHY search “Millhouse Frisbee”

GIPHY search “Spongebob Alone”

GIPHY search “Spongebob Alone”

GIPHY search “Cookie Monster Office”

GIPHY search “Cookie Monster Office”

  • If they don’t say anything else, send them an email that says “Are you still interested in [OUTCOME]?”. Very simple. You can either make that the headline of a new email, or reply to an old email thread with that as the body of the email. Either way is effective.
  • If they don’t reply to any of this, don’t waste your time. Feel free to check in in 3 or 4 months on the off chance that they are ready, but don’t burn yourself out over sustaining the outreach if they’re not reciprocating at all.

Fixing Bad Sales Results

Most sales system problems can be fixed with an offer people really, really love.

The best sales advice I have is to really, actually care about them.

In fact… care about them enough to call them on their BS and self-deceptions! You need to be the adult in the room who lovingly renders needed advice if they’re way off.

Remind them that the comfort zone only generates regret. Everything we humans desire to accomplish, attain, and achieve, is on the opposite side of a gap that feels uncomfortable and maybe even scary to cross.

Don’t laugh and make them feel better about things that are their fault and aren’t working. We don’t want to condone that kind of pride.

When we are uncovering the problem on a call, we don’t want to offer any validation, any encouragement. We need them to see clearly that what they’re doing ISN’T cutting it.

The discomfort will go away once you’re very good at the skill set!

Care enough, to be curious enough, to ask the questions, that give YOU the answers that sell YOU on them, so in turn You can sell THEM on themselves. So that, when decision time arrives, they’ll trust themselves to know they can trust you, and make the decision that speeds them up to the outcome they dream about.

Where Next

  • Phone Sales will get you the most traction at the beginning. It’s a key component of getting up to $10K / month and beyond.
  • BUT. One of the ways you can create margin and space in your life is just by creating some conversion mechanisms that lighten your manual load. Remember when we were talking about placing a qualifying mechanism between yourself and the prospect once you’re having too many Messenger conversations? One way you can do that is by actually refusing to take phone calls. You can create a Notion page with a quick video sales letter and say something like “Hey! We actually have a program tailored specifically to solving that problem, and it’s the first step any of our clients take with us no matter what. We’re raising the price soon, but we’re still ironing out when. Here’s the link! If you have any questions, please shoot them over. I may even record you a quick video response or offer to jump on a quick call if it would help.” You can learn more about this in the “Zero Call Close” BONUS material.
  • The bottom line is this — sales is an extremely important part of this process. If you don’t have a solid process in place, you will shoot yourself in the foot with both barrels, reload em, and fire again. It’ll be like running a marathon, getting the full length of the track, and then tripping, hitting yourself in the head, and getting knocked out 10 yards from the finish line. Let’s take the home stretch seriously.

Next Steps

Sign in to the Notion Page.

Go to the section corresponding to this Lesson

Fill in the prompts and mark the Task in the Workbook as “Complete”


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